Alternator Not Charging... Killing Batteries

[fordhombre]

Hi,

Firstly wanted to say that I haven't been to the forums in about a year and a half. My '69 f-100 stepside took a long nap when I first moved to Houston... Now we're back up and running. The site really looks awesome!

Onto the problem!

I'm on my 3rd new battery, as the other two went dead. Had them tested and they were kaput! So when the pickup was running, I disconnected the negative battery terminal to see if it the alternator was charging, and the pickup instantly died.

So I'm going to have my alternator tested and see what's up, but I think there might be a problem with the wiring... It was something I had done myself a long time ago, and might've missed something around the voltage regulator...

I also have a problem with the pickup starting when it's warm. If I try to start withing about 5 minutes after shutting down, it turns over VERY slow. I dunno if this is a drained battery problem, or a starter problem. But connections and battery are good.

Anybody know of symptoms that would cause these issues? I'll start checking the wiring about Keith's schematics.

[fordhombre]

Probably should've mentioned that the engine is a 351w from around a '79 Ford LTD. The alternator colors and size don't match up with the schematics....

[fordman]

you have two different problems listed there. the alt wiring /charging problem and the not hard start problem. i would recheck your wiring with the diagrams again and make sure thats right. have the alt and reg checked at the parts place. then for the hot start problem could be vapor lock or incorrect timing due to a worn timing chain. vapor lock can be caused by too much heat soak to the carb and you will need a phelonic spacer to get the heat away from the carb. also you will want to recheck the timing and any slack that might be in the timing chain. to see if its a carb problem when the truck is hot and not wanting to start. get out and look down the carb and hand pump the throttle linkage to se if any gas is coming into the throat of the carb, if you have gas squirting then its a timing problem. to check the slack in the timing chain remove the dist cap put a break over on the crank pully bolt and slightly turn the engine back and forth. if the rotor turns a few seconds later than you turn the crank then the the timing chain is slightly worn. it it turns in even more time. its worn even more. if it turns exactly as you turn the crank then its good. if it is worn at all then a slight timing adjustment needs to be made.

[Jake11]

Clean the battery cables and take all the ground wires off and clean them too. Eng. running hook BATT+ to field on
alternator. Just for a couple seconds. If you hear it sing, or it load the engine, it's charging. If the battery's dead,
it ain't gonna crank very good, no? Jake

[fordhombre]

I believe the carb already has one of those spacers... see what you think?



I no longer think it's the alternator to blame. I checked voltage at the battery before I started the pickup, and it was around 12.04v or so. I checked voltage at the battery when the pickup was running and it jumped up to 13.5 or so... I then checked it at the alternator using the alternator's ground connection and it was around 14v... So everything there should be normal right? Should I still take the alternator and regulator to be tested?

And try as I might, I never saw ANY gasoline entering into the carb, even with it running. I sat in the engine looking down while it was running and ran the throttle but I never saw any traces of gas! I'm guessing I'm just looking at the wrong spot...

In the picture above, the fuel line enters into the carb on the side... does anyone know if there's an inline filter in there? If so, it hasn't been changed in about 8 years and that might be some of the problems.

I have a video of the pickup running and no gas getting into the carb on my photobucket site here: http://s282.photobucket.com/albums/kk25 ... alt007.flv

Just for good measure, I'll include pics of the alt and regulator.

[Thunderfoot]

Voltages all sound good, might check them after you have run the truck a bit / warmed up and make sure they are still about the same.

The hard start when it is warm, right after you turn the motor off, and have to wait until it cools a bit could be the starter itself. This could also be related to the battery problem as well, the winding in the starter are starting to short out and when the starter is warm they short out worse causing a bigger drain on the battery and the starter to not work / turn over like it should. You can check the voltage drop at the battery when you try to start it cold compared to when it is hot, it shouldn’t change much.
With what you said about it turning over very SLOW when it is hot, the starter would be the second thing I would do/change. The first would be to check and clean all the connections from the battery to the starter, and the ground from the battery to the engine, if they are all good, try a different starter.

On the carb, there may be a filter in the housing under that fitting where the fuel line connects. You won’t be able to see the fuel flow into the engine easily as it is down in the carb a ways and also if it is running correct the fuel will atomize into the air stream so fast you won’t see it. If the engine is running and accelerates fine then all is working good there.

[fordhombre]

The more we discuss, the more it sounds like a starter problem.

There is no voltage drop on the battery when the truck is warm. It really surprised me but the battery was still at 12v when the engine was just barely dragging to turn over.

I'll check the connections and see what's up. I've already checked the ground to the engine and it's all good, so I'll check the + to the solenoid, then the starter. I've owned this pickup for 9 years, and it's spent about 5 yrs. sitting up after a wreck. I don't think that starter has ever been replaced. Might be about that time!

Thanks for all the help, I'll post an update after some work!

[fordhombre]

So if the starter is the cause of the difficult start when hot, what is causing the battery drain as I'm driving?

If I drive the pickup at night, using the headlights, they start to dim as I drive, and my turn signal switch start clicking very slowly. The battery is being drained as I'm driving, which is why I first suspected alternator.

I plan on taking the regulator, alternator, and possibly starter to be checked out today.

EDIT** They can't test the voltage regulator since it's not inside the alternator... Is there any way I can test it with measuring voltages?

[fordman]

take it to another place to have the regulator checked. it can be done. they just couldnt do it. autozone can do it. i have had mine done there.

[my1stf-100]

i had a voltage issue like that on my 71 then oneday it died on me would not start would not do nothing even with a new batt it turned out it was a bad ground to the block and some how the voltage regulater had went bad so i did new wires and regulator starter and and alt after i found out what was wrong i just think that if one thing goes bad seeing that it had never been changed i should just change it all . AND after that my son ran the wireing from my tech and choke to my carb to my batt so needles to say i went to start it and it was so dead it took all day on the charger

[kaptnkaos]

I was experiencing similar problems with my battery and charging system until this weekend...

I just replaced the alt and reg for under $70...
I found that the battery wire on the alternator had grounded out on engine block and was causing a direct short.
That in turn burned out a good battery, which I replaced a little over a month ago.
Now that I replaced the alt and reg and fixed the connections, everything works better.

KaptnKA S