Lost all juice!

[sargentrs]

1970 Sport Custom. Long bed. 302 cid, 3.03 tranny. 3 on the tree. She's been sitting for about a month while I work on the clutch. Got the clutch in, fired her up, can't kill it with the key! Pull the coil wire to kill her. Crank it with the key, can't kill it with the key. Got up this morning, now can't crank it and all power is dead. No headlights, no interior lights, nothing. Replaced the ignition switch. Replaced the starter solenoid. Got 12V at the battery, 12V to the solenoid. Turn the key on, got 12V volts to the T terminal, turn key to crank, got 12V to the S terminal. No juice to the starter side of the solenoid at any time. Got juice at the fuse box to all fuses depending on key on/off as appropriate. Got juice to the ignition switch on the big terminal and conductivity across both big terminals with key on. No juice to instrument panel at any time. Where to next?

[Thunderfoot]

Replaced the starter solenoid. Got 12V at the battery, 12V to the solenoid. Turn the key on, got 12V volts to the T terminal, turn key to crank, got 12V to the S terminal. No juice to the starter side of the solenoid at any time.

You are talking the "I" terminal on the Starter Solenoid correct? also double check that you have voltage to the + side of the ignition coil with key on... But it sounds like that either the starter solenoid is not grounded good to the fender + fender making ground connection to the battery OR the starter solenoid is bad. I have had bad luck with new starter solenoids, that last one I got took 3 of them from the parts store before I got a good one. (Others here have had the same problem)

No juice to instrument panel at any time.

Check for voltage on the "Black-green striped wire going into the instrument panel, this is the power wire for it, if you have power on it then the Instrument Panel Voltage Regulator (IPVR) would be the next thing to check as it may have died...

[sargentrs]

Yeah, I mean the I terminal. And have juice to coil with key on. Replaced voltage regulator but still no good. A couple years ago, I replaced the solenoid again. Went to start, same problem. Replaced voltage regulator, still no start. Discovered yellow wire coming from solenoid had come loose. Fixed it and everything was good. This time, I made sure the wire was connected. Have juice going into the wire and coming out on the other side of the molded connector (fusible link?) It goes into a 3 prong metal ballast/condenser/whatever it is. Have juice into connector thru yellow wire and juice coming out opposite prong but no juice at 3rd prong. Is it bad? What is it? By the way, did I mention I don't have any headlights either?

[Thunderfoot]

Is this the part you are talking about (see attachment below). If not can you take a pic of it

The IPVR is differnent from the Voltage Regulator... This is on the back side of the instrument panel itself, but it wont have anything to do with it not starting only the gauges not working.

I would be sure that the Starter Solenoid is grounded good, even try running a wire from the (-) terminal of the battery to one of the mounting bolts of the Starter Solenoid. Where you have power going to the (S) terminal when you turn the key to start and the starter wont activate (no power on the starter cable) then it is either this ground connection or the solenoid is bad, there is nothing else that it can be.


FYI, the part I have marked in the picture is the "Horn Relay"

[Thunderfoot]

On the Headlights do you have park lights? if not check the Black-orange striped wire going into the light switch, this should have power on it all the time. If you have park/marker lights then check the Red-yellow striped wire going to the dimmer switch with the headlights on, if you have power there then the dimmer switch could be the problem, if you don't have power on this wire then check it out of the light switch, the switch itself could be bad.

Ether you have multiple problems, or a bad ground (make sure the ground cable to the engine, and cable from engine to the cab is good), or some fried/shorted wires under the dash, or a combination

[sargentrs]

Now I feel like a complete idiot! Replaced solenoid, voltage regulator, ignition switch and battery cable to starter (it looked burnt). Traced wiring all the way to the dashboard. Removed ground cable at battery and block and cleaned and sanded both ends. Pulled instrument cluster and disconnected harness and cleaned terminals. Guess what......the battery was no good! Had 12V across both posts of the battery and to the solenoid. But when you put any kind of load on it, it dropped to zero. Found that out by hooking jumper cables directly from battery to starter and when it didn't hit, put the volt meter on it to see what it was doing. Rule #1 when troubleshooting electrical......make sure you have power at the source! Appreciate all your help and advice!! I forgot the most basic of principles....the KISS principle......Keep It Simple Stupid! The stupid, being me, of course!

[Thunderfoot]

I hate those coincidence type issues... I think that you did need the new ignition switch, as that was what was making the engine keep running after turning the key off, but the battery died on you at the same time That is one of the harder battery faults to find without a load tester
Glad you got it figured out

[Bullitt390]

Also never replace parts unless you have to...

Josh

[sargentrs]

Is this the part you are talking about (see attachment below). If not can you take a pic of it

The IPVR is differnent from the Voltage Regulator... This is on the back side of the instrument panel itself, but it wont have anything to do with it not starting only the gauges not working.

I would be sure that the Starter Solenoid is grounded good, even try running a wire from the (-) terminal of the battery to one of the mounting bolts of the Starter Solenoid. Where you have power going to the (S) terminal when you turn the key to start and the starter wont activate (no power on the starter cable) then it is either this ground connection or the solenoid is bad, there is nothing else that it can be.


FYI, the part I have marked in the picture is the "Horn Relay"

Yep, that's the one I was talking about. Thanks! Always wondered what that was.

[sargentrs]

Funny. Replaced the ignition switch but she still won't die when I turn the key off. Cranks fine but won't kill. Bad switch?

[sargentrs]

Is this the part you are talking about (see attachment below). If not can you take a pic of it

The IPVR is differnent from the Voltage Regulator... This is on the back side of the instrument panel itself, but it wont have anything to do with it not starting only the gauges not working.

I would be sure that the Starter Solenoid is grounded good, even try running a wire from the (-) terminal of the battery to one of the mounting bolts of the Starter Solenoid. Where you have power going to the (S) terminal when you turn the key to start and the starter wont activate (no power on the starter cable) then it is either this ground connection or the solenoid is bad, there is nothing else that it can be.


FYI, the part I have marked in the picture is the "Horn Relay"

Yep, that's the one I was talking about. Always wondered what that was. Must be bad anyway. The PO had put a horn button under the dash 'cuz the horn quit working. Now I know what to ask for! Thanks!

[sargentrs]

Also never replace parts unless you have to...

Josh

Yeah, I've gotta learn more about electrical and troubleshooting. I've spent a fortune replacing parts that didn't need replacing just 'cuz I didn't know how check to see if was good. Never too old to learn, huh?

[Thunderfoot]

Funny. Replaced the ignition switch but she still won't die when I turn the key off. Cranks fine but won't kill. Bad switch?

Try unplugging the wire on the "I" terminal on the Starter Solenoid and see if it still does it...

[sargentrs]

Now that's interesting. Unplugged the I terminal and she died just like she's supposed to. I know there's solenoids with only 1 terminal but mine always had 2 and never did that before. Thanks! What's just happened?

[Thunderfoot]

The Solenoid is bad
The Starter solenoid has 2 relays inside it, one is for the starter itself and the other is for this "I" terminal. The purpose of the "I" terminal is to supply a full 12V to the ignition coil to help the motor start, then after you let off the starter it turns off and the voltage to the coil, and then power is supplied from the ignition switch, which is only around 6-9 volts. This 6-9 volts is to keep the points from burning out so fast, when full 12V are applied to them all the time they burn up quicker...
The newer vehicles that have electronic ignition (no Points) don't need this voltage drop so they run 12V all the time and hence don't need the boost voltage for starting, so the Solenoid doesn't have the extra terminal/relay in it for them.

Anyway, that relay part in the Solenoid is shorted ON all the time, supplying 12V to your coil all the time... which will also drain your battery with the motor off if the points were closed at the time, and would burn the points out if they were almost closed...