Is the PA Performance 4ga alternator wire recommended?

[robroy]

Good day!

I'll soon be adding a 140A alternator to my truck. The alternator's a self-exciting, one wire design in a 1G case from Tuff Stuff (resold through March). I'm adding this big alternator so I can run the Taurus electric fan(s) and still have some spare capacity for big off road lights or a neon Elvis sign or whatever.

On the PA Performance web site I've noticed this 4ga alternator output wire with a built in, 200A fuse box.

http://www.paperformance.com/scripts/pr ... product=88


Is this product recommended for my setup? Is this thing a "hum dinger?"

Thanks very much for the truly outstanding advice!
Robroy

[ToughOldFord]

I'm adding this big alternator so I can run the Taurus electric fan(s) and still have some spare capacity for big off road lights or a neon Elvis sign or whatever.

[fitzwell]

Why not use a stock 3g? Cheap, 130 amp output, and are internally regulated. One wire alternators are great....on forklifts & farm tractors,IMHO.

Either way, you need a large inline fuse on the charge wire. On the 3g conversions i've done, i've used a MIDI fuseholder & a 125 amp fuse. A/C, taurus fan, lights on...no worries. The Taurus (tauri ?) that i have pulled alternators off of have a 4ga charge wire that feeds the power distribution box...thru a 175 amp fuse

[robroy]

Hey ToughOldFord and Fitzwell, thanks for your excellent replies!

ToughOldFord, if I wind up installing the Elvis sign, I promise I'll post a photo!

Why not use a stock 3g? Cheap, 130 amp output, and are internally regulated. One wire alternators are great....on forklifts & farm tractors,IMHO.

You know, I thought about this quite a bit. The 1G alternator I bought is rated at 140A, is also internally regulated, and is a one wire design. I bought this one instead of the 3G because the 1G wouldn't require me to modify my mounting brackets, and I wanted to use this really nice bracket for that (that I wouldn't want to grind up):



I'm curious about your comment about forklifts and farm tractors--do you think one wire alternators are best on those, but they're not as good for regular cars? If this is what you meant, what's your reason for saying this?

Either way, you need a large inline fuse on the charge wire. On the 3g conversions i've done, i've used a MIDI fuseholder & a 125 amp fuse. A/C, taurus fan, lights on...no worries. The Taurus (tauri ?) that i have pulled alternators off of have a 4ga charge wire that feeds the power distribution box...thru a 175 amp fuse

Okay, I see! Thanks. So this PA Performance charge wire has a 200A fuse in it--do you think a smaller fuse is a better idea? The PA Performance site said not to alter the fuse size, and mentioned that they'd done research to conclude that 200A is the best fuse size for these large alternator swaps. But I'm not sure exactly what their reason is for using such a huge fuse.

Thanks very much ToughOldFord and Fitzwell!!!
Robroy

[ToughOldFord]

Sorry, I've been no help at all in this thread, but I couldn't resist.

[fitzwell]

if you use the correct 3G, no bracket modification is necessary. 98 mustang v6 is one application...there are several others.

A one wire alternator charges at a preset number, it doesnt know(or care) if the lights are on, if the fans are operating, etc,etc.It is going to charge a specific number, no more, no less. Lots of people use 'em, but i don't believe it's a good deal on a street driven application.

As for the fuse...if you have a 200 amp fuse in a 140 amp circuit..why bother. The alt could max out..at 140 amps, not trip the fuse, and still manage to melt whetever the weak link is in the system. I have a 125 amp on mine. If the alt decides to go full output, the charge fuse is going to snap before i melt something.

as always...

[robroy]

Hey ToughOldFord and Fitzwell, thanks for replying!

ToughOldFord, that photos gives me all KINDS of ideas--thanks!

if you use the correct 3G, no bracket modification is necessary. 98 mustang v6 is one application...there are several others.

Whoops--I didn't know this. Oh well!

A one wire alternator charges at a preset number, it doesnt know(or care) if the lights are on, if the fans are operating, etc,etc.It is going to charge a specific number, no more, no less. Lots of people use 'em, but i don't believe it's a good deal on a street driven application.

Oh, interesting! So for a one wire alternator, does it either kick on or kick off depending on its voltage regulator, but it always charges with a preset amount of current?

As for the fuse...if you have a 200 amp fuse in a 140 amp circuit..why bother. The alt could max out..at 140 amps, not trip the fuse, and still manage to melt whetever the weak link is in the system. I have a 125 amp on mine. If the alt decides to go full output, the charge fuse is going to snap before i melt something.

I see your point! I was also thinking the same thing when I read that thing on the PA Performance web site. Maybe I'll call them and ask what the deal is.

I don't understand the big picture of adapting a high output alternator to an old car. If our trucks came with alternators that put out 40A or 65A or something, why is it that a 140A or larger alternator can be popped in without melting all kinds of wires? Is the high current electricity confined to only a few circuits, that are hopefully designed to handle it?

Thanks very much ToughOldFord and Fitzwell!!!
Robroy

[robroy]

I heard back from PA Performance on the 200A fuse question.

There are two tolerances in play;

20% each for current flow and heat. 200a - 20%, - 20% = 128 amps
failure.

I don't understand enough about electricity to evaluate the validity of their reply. What do ya'll think?

Thanks very much,
Robroy

[fitzwell]

I heard back from PA Performance on the 200A fuse question.

There are two tolerances in play;

20% each for current flow and heat. 200a - 20%, - 20% = 128 amps
failure.

I don't understand enough about electricity to evaluate the validity of their reply. What do ya'll think?

Thanks very much,
Robroy

Valid, yes. a bit overkill, but valid. i'd stick with a 125 amp fuse in this application. You could go to 150 if you wanted, but remember, once again in this application, chances are you'll never get close to the 140 amp output of that particular unit. If you do, there are other problems to be addressed in the system.


Main reason for a high output alternator in vehicles such as ours is to do any electrical upgrades. The taurus cooling fan you had mentioned is a perfect example of this. On high speed startup, that fan pulls OVER 80 amps, and settles in at about 50 running. If you are driving at night, have the lights on, stereo cranked up, a/c on and the fan comes on, you have just melted the stock 45 amp alternator. With a 3G, it ain't even breathing hard.

Second is the 3G is internally regulated, makes for a cleaner installation,IMHO. Less wires in the engine bay, and no external regulator to mount.

and, as always...

[robroy]

Valid, yes. a bit overkill, but valid. i'd stick with a 125 amp fuse in this application. You could go to 150 if you wanted, but remember, once again in this application, chances are you'll never get close to the 140 amp output of that particular unit. If you do, there are other problems to be addressed in the system.

OK, thanks!

Main reason for a high output alternator in vehicles such as ours is to do any electrical upgrades. The taurus cooling fan you had mentioned is a perfect example of this. On high speed startup, that fan pulls OVER 80 amps, and settles in at about 50 running. If you are driving at night, have the lights on, stereo cranked up, a/c on and the fan comes on, you have just melted the stock 45 amp alternator. With a 3G, it ain't even breathing hard.

Great, thanks!

Second is the 3G is internally regulated, makes for a cleaner installation,IMHO. Less wires in the engine bay, and no external regulator to mount.

Yes I like this benefit! Hopefully my re-done 1G alternator truly has an internal regulator as stated in their literature.

Thanks for your patient and detailed replies Fitzwell!
Robroy

[robroy]

The alternator arrived! I've been trying to figure out how to hook it up to the March brackets.






Thanks for the excellent advice!
Robroy

[70_F100]

The gloves are a nice touch, robroy.

Helps keep from getting fingerprints on that nice, shiny chrome!!!

By the way, I've been wondering. With the precision (and the big bucks) you're putting into this truck, are you an engineer or a surgeon? (The gloves make me think "surgeon")

[robroy]

Thanks very much for the complements 70_F100!

And about the big bucks, I like to compare the cash I've spent on my Bumpside to what folks normally spend for a new car. After all, in the end I'll have a car with a new or thoroughly rebuilt engine, transmission, steering, brakes, suspension, and more. And how much do folks spend on a new car? Maybe between $15,000 and $35,000?

And it seems even funnier when a comparison is made between the money put in to this Bumpside and the cost of buying a new car with anywhere near the amount of power that the Bumpside will have. What kind of new car has 400+ horsepower and all that torque? And what's the price tag on that?

Naturally there are things offered by a new car that my Bumpside can't compare to. But I think you can see where I'm going with this!

Robroy

[fitzwell]

Thanks very much for the complements 70_F100!

And about the big bucks, I like to compare the cash I've spent on my Bumpside to what folks normally spend for a new car. After all, in the end I'll have a car with a new or thoroughly rebuilt engine, transmission, steering, brakes, suspension, and more. And how much do folks spend on a new car? Maybe between $15,000 and $35,000?

And it seems even funnier when a comparison is made between the money put in to this Bumpside and the cost of buying a new car with anywhere near the amount of power that the Bumpside will have. What kind of new car has 400+ horsepower and all that torque? And what's the price tag on that?

Naturally there are things offered by a new car that my Bumpside can't compare to. But I think you can see where I'm going with this!

Robroy

when you get done, you'll have a truck that will be worth what you have in it in 5 years.

try that with a Hyundai/kia/malibu/......

[rjewkes]

looks like the casing from an 86-88 f250 Deisel.