Starting issue slowly and methodically driving me insane

[knipdlo]

Hey all,

Truck has been flawless since the carb issues were fixed around christmas.. Well last week I drove it one day, parked it- everything was great- had driven it for the better part of an hour- so everything was charged. Came back out the next day turned the key on and the dash lights were a little dimmer than usual- hit the key 'Click'.... nothing key again 'Click'.. figured maybe something had drained it? left something on? idk- grabbed jumper cables and hooked up to my other car- hit the key 'ClickClickClickClickClick' more like popcorn or automatic gunfire.. Thought yup the starters packed up took me a couple days to get time to work on it- battery was dead when I got back to work on it a few days later??? Very uncharacteristic of the truck so far its always started like a champ anyway- got it out, tried it with a set of jumper cables and just my other car- hooked one to the starter metal where the bolt holes are- touched the other to the terminal on the starter- big sparks, bit arc, welded the jumper cable to the post- tried again- same thing.. Went to the store bought a new starter- brought it home and tried it out of the truck again the same way- with the same results- got annoyed and figured it was another bad starter- took both starters back to the store- tested the new one on their rig- worked great.. Tried my old starter- works great/a little bearing noise.. So I took my old starter back, and thought it was the ground strap cable (it looked a little suspect- or the solenoid had bit the dust (looks like a cheep-o) bought both solenoid and cable, came back, installed, re-installed original starter- grabbed jumper cables hooked up- looked good no big sparking or anything.. turned the key on- had dash idiot lights- hit the key quick-'Click' then everything went dark- no idiot lights.. so I figured it was that a cable was a little loose.. went back under the hood and the positive jumper aligator on my car's jumper terminal was SMOKING! I heard fizzling from the battery area, so I quickly pulled the neg off the alternator of the truck, and there was a shower of sparks.. it was VERY HOT! All parts of the jumper cable were COOKING HOT.. I have only ever experienced this when I had an idiot friend put jumper cables on backwards.. I double checked where everything was (you can't make a mistake on the car- the battery is in the trunk, so there is a bolt on the top of the engine that you use for jumps- and I had connected the truck side negative to the alternator bracket.. so no way of making a mistake! Anyway, I don't know what else it could be?? Someone please help! I need to move it and the car on the trailer into storage this weekend before the hail comes on saturday!

Thanks and sorry its so long...
Tim

[fordman]

you have dirty connections between the battery solenoid and starter someplace. check all of them clean them put them back on tight. also charge the battery before you jump it again. its not the starter.

[Thunderfoot]

That all sounds like an bad (internally shorted) battery!!! Take your battery out and take it and get it checked.

[Dragon]

There was a Factory recall on our ignition switches it was serious. The switch shorted internally and if lucky(most were) it would drain the battery. If you were not lucky the wiring in the dash flamed on or the wiring under the hood on the passenger side flamed on. Since Ford kept records they will know if you got the upgraded switch. It only needed to be replaced once to permanently fix the problem. Ford needs your VIN number. Go to Ford.com and get the phone number and call their 800 number.

I had both my 68s do this battery drain problem and the 69 F350 that I bought in 2003 had the problem. The recall covered 67 to 78 if I remember right. I had both my 68s in 79.

[knipdlo]

That sounds like a reasonable issue-- would they replace it for free (haha!) or should I just go buy one and install it?-- Also I replaced my battery with one that is new from another vehicle..

[Dragon]

All recalls are free.

[fordman]

do you think they would still honor this old of a recall?

[Dragon]

They have too Federal law. Recalls never expire.

[knipdlo]

Called the dealer service dept today and the guy said he doesn't have anything past 10 years old.. He said ford corporate might.. So I went and bought a switch to see if that was it.. Replaced.. Makes a slightly different noise when the solenoid clicks.. Did it the first couple times on jumper cables made a clicking grinding noise, then hit the key again and the dash lights went out, I then heard the jumping car's alternator belt squeel as it went under full load (not when I hit the key mind you, after I released it) so I ran and took the cables off (sparks, hot) etc..

So, probably not the ignition unfortunately.. But I believe the ignition was original.. so good to change it I guess..

[Dragon]

I would suspect the starter. Real bad. If the alternator B+ wire is disconnected then do a quick tap of the cables and hold them with the starter engaged if the thing tries to do the stuff again the brushes are probably worn out or so short they turned sideways and shorted out.

Dealers are required by Federal law to carry 7 years back so you got a good one that carries 10 years. A lot of times when they go past 7 years they don't toss the stuff out they sell it to someone that uses it for cores or that is how we get NOS parts. Someone bought it and set it aside. I got my NOS Turn signal switch and front turn signal lens from a former Ford Parts guy on ebay.

[FreakysFords]

just for the sake of it, have you tried disconnecting the alternator (and regulator if still equipped)?

[Thunderfoot]

I would suspect the starter. Real bad. If the alternator B+ wire is disconnected then do a quick tap of the cables and hold them with the starter engaged if the thing tries to do the stuff again the brushes are probably worn out or so short they turned sideways and shorted out.

Went to the store bought a new starter- brought it home and tried it out of the truck again the same way- with the same results- got annoyed and figured it was another bad starter- took both starters back to the store- tested the new one on their rig- worked great.. Tried my old starter- works great/a little bearing noise.. So I took my old starter back

That all sounds like an bad (internally shorted) battery!!! Take your battery out and take it and get it checked.

Also I replaced my battery with one that is new from another vehicle..

If you have done this after this issue first started have you tried it back in the other vehicle to just confirm the battery is good?

After that I would try to turn the engine over by hand with a wrench on the front crank bolt, you may want to even pull all the spark plugs so see if it is hydro-locked. It sound like the starter is froze as Dragon said, but sense you replaced the starter already then the motor sounds locked up as the starter is about the only thing that can cause that kind of load on the jumper cables and if the motor wont turn over it would do these same things... Only other thing I can think would be if the starter solenoid was to have some weird way shorted out to ground internally.

[knipdlo]

I replaced the solenoid too with the same thought.. I'll make a video today that will explain better.. It's hard to explain I think it will be easier if you can see it..

[knipdlo]

just for the sake of it, have you tried disconnecting the alternator (and regulator if still equipped)?

I didn't get a chance to do a video today-- but this seems like a good idea^^ what do I remove? b+ on alt? just straight up un-plug the regulator?

Thanks so much for the help!

[Dragon]

The regulator, look at the tiny wires. It would smoke the wires before it could draw current. But a shorted alternator can pull 65 amps down it's B+ charge wire. So that eliminates one possible problem source since both the starter and the alternator are tied to the Solenoid. The solenoid can transfer almost 125 amps before is melts.