will a truck start without

[rjewkes]

i know on my truck if the ground wire is off(all trucks have this same sympton) no power anywhere, if the orange wire isn';t hooked where it goes on the alternator then i get crankin and running but turn on lights or any power sucking gadget and poof nothing. it must be the field wire. this is on a 72 and i beleive ity onlu has the two single 4 wire cnectors on the apron.

[fordman]

ok here is a drawing of what i have from the old alternator harness. this was suppose to be a gauge harness. althought the cluster was behind the seat when i got this truck. but this is what is hooked up right now. there is a blue wire that goes to nothing up near this same location. as well as the start wire and coil power wire. but i am ignorign those three wires because they dont do anyhting to my alt harness. i drew this out so someone could tell me what is missing. maybe they can draw in new colored lines to tellme how to hook this up correctly. none of the wires that cross in the picture are wired together. the ones that are together are the ones at the starter relay. all other follow thier route without connecting to other wires along the way.

[tanusfarms]

fordman judgeing by your drawing depicting a altenator that has 3 terminals and a harnes that has 3 wires the only thing I that I am aware of that would make sinse of it is this

http://www.fordification.com/tech/wirin ... ging03.jpg

but nothing that I know of tells me that the Horn should be in the same harness as the altenator wireing.

this diagram tells me that if your current wiring was this that you horn wire would be yellow and SHOULD have a 4 amp fuse in it before splicing into a 1-black and 1-black and yellow wire coming from the starter relay and ultimately contimueing on as a yellow wire to a field relay

the wire you show you going to your start relay would be correct by this dia gram if it was black and yellow

and the third wire you show going to the voltage regulator is shown in the diagram going the the feild relay and then perhaps ontu then ontu the regulator but it would have to be green with a red strip.

one issue with this diagram is that it is for a 69. you stated yours is a 67 however the 67 diagrams even on other sites i've seen don't show the altenator with 3 posts. as you diagram does.

[fordman]

thats the wrogn diagram. that has the fiel drelay on the core wupport. mine never had that. it is inside of the alternator. the horn wire on these trucks is yellow. it does run down the fender well into the plug to the alt harness and out towards the regulator where the horn sits above the regulator anyway. the 4 amp fuesd wire is what i think i am missign for the return to the amp gauge. it may be a seperate wire that i need to add. but none fo the diagrams on the site are like this one i have drawn. that is what i dont understand. is if this wiring is correct ro if it is wired slightly different than the available. diagrams on the site.

[tanusfarms]

this is how your horn should be wired in a 67 f100.

http://www.fordification.com/tech/wirin ... 67horn.jpg

I've never had these diagrams be wrong and i have had to be in and out of almost each one of the to figure out what kinda mess i was left with from the previous owner of my rig.

the diagram shows you are right that the wire is yellow going from the starter relay and going to the horn relay however it doesn't go into the altenator harness. The cab on my truck is a 70 with gauges so i ran out to see if it was the same as the diagram shown for mine and it is. mine isn't wired exactly the same as a 67 but they are extremely close.

so if I was to go strictly by what can be seen on diagrams and not using any knowledge I have of how these trucks are "Usually" I would concieve that from what i see the only altenators that actually use a harness are the 65amp ones that do have 3 post. the 67 section on doesn't show one but there is one in the 68 and 69 sev=ction that agree on how to wire them which is the way I described earlier. also take note that the diagram is for a ammeter gauge. the diagram did show that the power to the cab is in the altenator harness and should be carried on the black and yellow wire that would mate in the other harness to the wire that you have connecting to your starter relay. you are correct in that the fused yellow wire is missing, it goes to your gauge and does need to be spliced in to get you reading correct the other terminal of the gauges would be connected to a wire coming from the starter relay that also has a 4 amp fuse on it however that wire connects into a different harness as shown in the diagram i gave you in my last post.

now when I look at all the diagrams that don't have the feild relay that you say isn't on your truck just as mine does not have one. it doesn't show the same harness you have. As a matter of fact it doesn't show a altenator harness at all it appears that all of the are wired directly to where they need to go. I just ran outside to take a look at my rig to see what it wire with, no harness for the altenator everything is just hard wired to where it needs to go. Sadly i think it is the only thing on the truck I won't have to rewire as it looks like they did it right and it is clean and some what professional looking. The only harnesses I even appear to have on that side of the rig look to be possible lights and power to the cab.

My though is you have a harness for a camper special altenator which was a heavy duty altenator that put out more amps and used a different wireing set up but you don't have that altenator. That would mean you'd have 2 choices 1) swap out altenators over to the heavy duty one and find a field relay or 2) wire the altenator in manually going by the diagram for the 67 or which ever you feel is be suited for you unless you are after a restoration then you'd have to try and find a complete loom for the altenator.

I don't want to give you the wrong impression. I am fairly new to these truck however automotive wiring isn't rocket science and as I read the scematics this is what I am seeing, I may be completely wrong in what I am saying and if I am would someone please show me where I went wrong because I am using the same logic when I look at the wiring On my rig and I want to ensure it is correct on there as well as ensure fordmans turns out right.

[fordman]

i know how the horn wires up on this truck. and that is not part of my question. so we can totally ignore that part of the picture. i only posted that part of the picture because the is what comes out of that plug.

the wiring and alternator are a camper special wiring in the truck now. the alternator is fine. the camper special wiring has a extenal field relay in the wiring added in. since my field relay is not external it makes the extra wiring for a external relay wrong. i dotn need that extra wiring. because i wouldn't have anything to plug into.

the diagram i drew is the old alt harness that i have and have to adapt it to this new main harness. here are a diagram i think is correct for what i have http://www.fordification.com/tech/wirin ... gauges.jpg what i dont understand is that it isnt exactly like what i have drawn. is it? if so then all i need is another wire from the start realy to go into the plug. if this diagram is correct. it basically has four wires all coming from battery power. i do not understand that. i should need one for power and two more for a gauge circut. that gives me 3 wires into my plug and the fourth wire is for the horn in that plug.

[fordman]

ok looking at this again the wire with the fuse may already be in the harness. so that brigns it back down to 3 wires coming from battery power. now how can a gauge work in a circut. with power flowing in a circle to make the gauge work if it is hooked up to the same place? that is what i dont understand.

[fordman]

ok maybe it goes this way. in the diagram i posted. wire 654 is a 4 amp fuse wire that comes from the junction. the wire 655 with the 4 amp fuse goes to the gauge and is possibly already in place on the truck. and goes directlky to the battery. wire 654 goes to the junction and probably sends the volt reading to the gauge and returns the voltage above to the battery. to measure the difference between the two places it connects to. so i would need to re run my connections that i have and add wire 654 with a fuse in it. does that sound right?

[fordman]

her are actual photo of this harness i am trying to use.ig nore the yellow wire in the second picture. that has yet to be remvoed fromt he harness and relocated for the horn wire.

[tanusfarms]

ok i think I have it figured out and I can give you a wiring diagram but I need to know if your voltage regulator is from a normal f100 or the camper special or something else also what year it is. it seems they changed what order the wires should be wired up almost each year. also just to confirm the flat looking plug that has the 2 yellow 1 white and perhaps the teal wire in it i am assuming it connects into your voltage regulator. if so I am not seeing the square 4 prong plug shown in connection a on the harness you took a picture of unless it just isn't in the picture either way I can get it going for you. using the diagram you choose unless you feel there is another that best fits you rig. You know you rig alot better then me so I can go off of what ever one you tell me to. if you have a standard 1967 voltage regulator you might not be able to use that plug based off of the wiring diagrams I am seeing.

[fordman]

the engine is a 351w. it wires up with only the two wires it is suppose to wire up with and the ground wire. i knmwo that much. it is only the wires to the gauge that i need to know about. the four wire plug is not on this harness in my pictures. that is part of my problem. it is intregal with the rest of the harness. which i think may have been some sort of aftermarket harness. someon riggedinto the truck. because it went completely around the gauge cluster. and it had no gauge cluster or any gauge in the truck that were being used. the cluster was behind the seat when i go the truck. that is why i removed the first harness from the truck. it was messed up and wired around to make it work without gauges somehow. i dont know. it didnt even have the tss hookup at all. but the truck had brake lights i think. i dont know. i think the previous owners name was wyle e coyote super genius. and then the train came and ran over the dynamite shack he was in at the time.

[Thunderfoot]

the diagram i drew is the old alt harness that i have and have to adapt it to this new main harness. here are a diagram i think is correct for what i have http://www.fordification.com/tech/wirin ... gauges.jpg what i don't understand is that it isn't exactly like what i have drawn. is it? if so then all i need is another wire from the start relay to go into the plug. if this diagram is correct. it basically has four wires all coming from battery power. i do not understand that. i should need one for power and two more for a gauge circuit. that gives me 3 wires into my plug and the fourth wire is for the horn in that plug.

Yes, that is the drawing you should be using to help wire up your truck with gauges.
Yes, there are 3 wires hooked to power in there (2 to one plug and 1 to the other) this is not including the horn relay power that would be a 4th one...
1. wire goes (basically) to the solenoid for main cab power (Black-yellow stripe).
1. wire goes (basically) to the solenoid for one of the Alt wires (Red wire).
1. wire goes (basically) to the BAT terminal on the Alternator for the other Alt wire (Yellow wire).
1. wire for horn power to the horn relay from the solenoid.

The Alt gauge need to have this (small) separation in connection to the battery power as that is how the gauge works (not very well), as it measures the fraction of voltage difference between the 2 places... (this is why it doesn't work very well) If you hooked them at the same point it will not work at all.

Your diagram you did looks fine, just need to make sure you put the small yellow wire for the alt gauge to the alternator side and the small red wire to the solenoid side. Don't forget to put the 4amp fuses in them as they are live all the time and that is the only protection for them.

Also, do look at your Voltage Regulator it will have marks for the connections that should be pretty self explanatory; I=ignition (Green-red striped wire), F=field, etc...

Hope this helps.

[fordman]

the horn relay is before the alt plug. so the wire that coems out of that plug is just a extenison of the wire going to the horn itself. i only have one open plug for the alt wiring. everything else is there already. so i cant run a second wire to a second plug. there is no second plug. maybe it is incorpoated with the single four pronged plug that i am trying to plug into. by looking at this diagram the wire i think i am missing is wire 654 which is suppose to come in before the starter realy battery hookup. so i woud splice a wire into my wire coming from the regulator? wire number 152? or would i splice into wire 37 after it comes from the starter relay? by the way my harness is made.

[Thunderfoot]

For that wire 654 (small Yellow wire) you want to mount it pretty close to the ALT Battery terminal (battery wire from Alternator to starter solenoid) or I would just mount it on the alternator terminal with the battery wire there. In the factory harness it is spliced into this battery line from the alternator to the solenoid just after the fuseable link (between link and solenoid). Keith has some info here too. http://www.fordification.com/tech/ammeter.htm

[tanusfarms]

fordman I ran across this today just curious if you have ever seen it

http://fordification.com/forum/viewtopi ... &sk=t&sd=a

as well as this one

http://www.fordification.com/tech/ammeter.htm

thought it might be appropriate and be very explanitory.

in your harness you are trying to use
coming from your voltage regulator harness
your yellow wires are probally going to be wire 152
the white one wire 35
and the middle one wire 904
this is if you want to wire as seen in the diagramm for the 69 you've been refernceing which should work.

from what i am seeing you need wire 35 to go to the b terminal on your altenator
a wire to go from the f terminal to the starter relay
and a wire going from the g terminal to ground

as for the gauges I found the article I refferenced to explain it the best and he even used a 67 camper special so it fairly easy to get it setup. I know both gauge wires will come from your starter relay and will be fused, 1 should be yellow and one should be red, you probally don't have those wires so you will need to run them yourself. as for the actual colors you run that should really matter but according to the article the size will.