Ford 9 inch, crush sleeve or solid spacers?

[bjde0b]

I finished restoring my truck and I now have it licensed. I have put about 130 miles on it now. I have noticed that my pinion seal is leaking. It appears that I changed it, based on my scuffed paint on the nut, but I do not recall measuring the torque to make sure it is set correctly, I assume I just whammed it home.

Now I know I should have measured my torque before taking it apart, but obviously it is too late.

I know I am going to get some people saying I ruined my gears already, but when I pulled to pinion housing to change the o-ring, there was not metal shavings so the gears seam okay, but I want to get it right. I probably just didn't lubricate the shaft and burned up the seal.

Questions:

1. Should I use a crush sleeve, or solid spacer? I am assuming I can't use a solid spacer unless I am measuring gear mesh, which I am not.

2. If I pull the axles, can I properly measure the torque of a used bearing at 6-15 in lbs if the the ring gear is still installed (i.e. I don't want to pull the pumpkin)?

Thanks for the help.

[sargentrs]

I'd definitely go with a crush sleeve. When I set my differential up, after having a shop replace all the bearings and seals, I think I did pretty good with the gear lash as best I can tell. The one thing that got me was setting the preload on the pinion. I was working with it on my workbench and I tightened the pinion nut as best I could with an impact (yes, I was slow and methodical) but then when it came to torquing it and setting the preload, I did not have a good enough bench set up and enough "ummph" to hold it and get enough torque. It takes about 400# torque, I think, to start the crush on that sleeve. I did the best I could but it still didn't feel right and I didn't have the right torque wrench (in/lb) to check it. I surfed a while and found this video on YouTube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WwCd3HNHYE and it gave me the idea to finish the job once it's installed in the frame. That's my intent anyway. Make a big backup bar and a long cheater pipe and use those to get the right torque while the weight of the truck holds it still. Without the tires and wheels on it of course. Since I'm using an old set of gears anyway, if it comes apart on me, it's no great loss. If it does, I'll buy a new gear set and have it professionally done. I just wanted the experience myself for the first time. I'm not an expert by no means, just thought I'd share my ideas anyway.

[Art]

The crush sleeve is used to set the pinion bearings - well actually, the preload on them - and does not affect the ring and pinion setting.

The pinion depth and backlash are what are set to "set up" the gearset. On the Ford 9", the pinion depth is set by the pinion depth shims which have 5 holes in them and are next to the O-ring you replaced. The backlash is set with the two threaded adjusters against the carrier bearings. If you did not disturb the shim pack thickness nor the carrier bearing adjusters (not possible without removing center section from axle housing), your ring and pinion gearset are still fine.

If you just rammed the pinion nut home during reassembly, it is possible that the crush sleeve may be different than when the axle was previously assembled. As you know there is a torque specification, but there are other things that affect the torque reading - especially the drag from the pinion oil seal!

In my axle experience, I have had problems with the replacement crush sleeves not crushing correctly. I always prefer a solid spacer and selective shim pack over a crush sleeve, because once it is set it will never change - even after service such as a pinion seal or yoke change. If the pinion bearings were to fail, the ring and pinion most likely will be damaged.

On the ford 9", it is very easy to remove the pinion crush sleeve and replace it with a solid spacer and shims, which are available. The ring gear can stay in the axle housing. As long as you do not affect the pinion depth shim pack thickness, your change to a solid pinion bearing spacer will not affect your ring and pinion setup.

[ultraranger]

Just a word to the wise; the Ford shop manuals expressly mention to NOT use an impact wrench on the driving pinion nut. The only time an impact should be used is possibly if you were taking the the nut off --to rebuild the 3rd member and were going to replace the bearings & races with new ones --which should be reassembled with hand tools.

The reason you should not use an impact on the driving pinion nut, when putting it together, is because the rapid and forceful impacts causes the tapered roller bearings to rattle violently against the bearing race surfaces. This causes damage on the surface of the bearings and races, which leads to premature bearing failure.

[sargentrs]

Ooops... Oh well. It is what it is.

[ultraranger]

Ooops... Oh well. It is what it is.

Maybe you were VERY lucky and nothing bad happened? ...just in case though, might want to get out your voodoo magic rooster foot, make a few passes with it over the 3rd member & recite some sort of mystical incantations to ward off any potential demons of mechanical destruction.

[sargentrs]

Now where did I put that rooster foot? I had it the other day when the wife and I were arguing.

[bjde0b]

I did test the free spinning torque before the posi locked in and it was 6 in lbs.

How do you determine the correct shim thickness, is it based on the thickness of the crush sleeve you remove?

[Art]

I did test the free spinning torque before the posi locked in and it was 6 in lbs.

If that was the rolling torque recorded before doing any disassembly, and you can repeat it accurately, you may able to reuse your pinion crush sleeve.

Reassemble (with the new pinion seal), but with the pinion nut only snug and measure the rolling torque. You are determining the drag due to the new seal. Then tighten the pinion nut to get an additional 6-12 in-lb of rolling torque. Do not overtighten, as loosening requires replacement of the crush sleeve (per service manual). It should take quite a bit of pinion nut torque (175 ft-lb minimum) to get that additional 6-12 in-lb rolling torque. If not, the crush sleeve was really squashed down and a solid spacer would in my opinion be the best route from there.

How do you determine the correct shim thickness, is it based on the thickness of the crush sleeve you remove?

The correct stack height will be just slightly less than the height of the used crush sleeve - due to the crush sleeve 'springing back' ever so slightly. Easiest method would be to just put the solid spacer in there with all of the shims, tighten the pinion nut and then measure the endplay measurement. Then remove that measurement's worth of shims to get you very close. You will most likely need to remove a small amount of shim from there to get you within rolling torque spec. Be sure to rotate the pinion several complete revolutions to align the tapered roller bearings' rollers before measuring torque. I prefer to set the rolling torque to the minimum side of spec ( but still within spec, of course) before installing the oil seal.

Make sure you lube the seal lip and seal surface of the yoke and don't forget to time the ring and pinion if you have a non-hunting gearset (most stock 9" ratios are non-hunting).

[bjde0b]

Thanks Art, I will try a crush sleeve first.

I saw this idea and I really liked it.

http://www.fordmuscleforums.com/rear-en ... asily.html

I am too far away from my house to measure the bolt pattern for the u-bolt. Would somebody help me out and measure the bolt pattern so I could make a plate?