Borg Warner overdrive

[fivo2fst4u]

Hi, new to Fordification, love the site so far! I read Jim Crabtree's Write up on the overdrive, and it is great, and very informative, I recently purchased a 72 F100 with a 302 and the T86 B/W overdrive trans. Someone put a floor shifter in it, and the shifter bracket stopped the lever on the side of the transmission from being able to be engaged. I spent the better part of the day taking the shifter apart, and modifying the bracket so that I could hook the cable back up, and make it function properly, that's problem # 1 resolved. The wire to the governor had been cut, and wires had been spliced into the harness up top, so I followed the wires to where they went, and got rid of the extra added wires. I don't know if the overdrive worked previously or not, as the guy I got it from bought it that way himself. And it looks like all the wires are black, I have cleaned them and can't seem to see any colors on them, at least no red with white, or visa versa, and I don't know which legs to use from the relay, and from the kick down, as I have never seen it in it's original state, nor can I find any images of any online. I wired it all according to a couple diagrams I found on line (what is the reason for the wire to the distributor side of the coil?) but could only guess as to which legs to use. I drove the truck, and nothing, except that when I depress the accelerator to the floor to engage the kickdown, it shorts out the coil and kills the engine! SO obviously, it's not wired correctly! Lol. Also, when I got under the truck, I found that the arm on the side of the transmission had moved forward, so it wouldn't have worked anyway, but with the kickdown killing the ignition when engaged, I know it's not wired right. I turned on the key, got under the truck, and grounded the governor lead, and no relay click, so I went up top, grounded the governor lead up there, very close to the relay, still no click, then I went back inside and started looking for more definitive pics of the wiring connections, no luck. Is there anyone out there who can steer me in the right direction, also, is there suppose to be a clamp somewhere to hold the overdrive lockout cable in place. I saw the one (and ran the cable through it) on the side of the transmission, but there is no provision to tighten it to hold the cable in place. Well, that's my dilemma! Lol ! I would really like to see if this tranny will work, any help will be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks Keith

[sargentrs]

Idk anything about your tyranny but from Georgia! You might check the Tech section. I know there's some drawings of B/W trannies and complete wiring diagrams there. http://www.fordification.com/tech/overdrive.htm if that's not the write up you referenced

[fivo2fst4u]

Idk anything about your tyranny but from Georgia! You might check the Tech section. I know there's some drawings of B/W trannies and complete wiring diagrams there. http://www.fordification.com/tech/overdrive.htm if that's not the write up you referenced

Thanks, I found a much better diagram that should enable me to get it wired from the correct legs http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-FXb06gZ0nOM/T ... iagram.jpg

I'm going to try it today, wish me luck!

[sargentrs]

Good luck n let us know if you get it working.

[fivo2fst4u]

Good luck n let us know if you get it working.

Thanks, Will do !

[fivo2fst4u]

Good luck n let us know if you get it working.

Thanks, Will do !

OKAY ! Here we go ! I grounded the relay first off, to see if it would click (again,lol) and could not get it to click, I took it apart, sanded the points, sanded, and wire brushed the connector legs, tried it again, and VOILA !! ~*CLICK*~ SO, went back to the wires, got underneath the truck, and using a hot lead attached directly to the battery, checked the two leads on the solenoid to see which one was the hot one, after a few reluctant sparks, I finally got a good solid click out of the solenoid, and then kept getting them repeatedly, every time I touched the hot lead to it. I went back to the top, and rewired it according to my new diagram, and then turned the key on, grounded the relay, and the solenoid clicked as it should. Next test, I started the engine, depressed the kickdown switch by hand, and the engine did NOT die! YAAYYYYYYY !!!!!! Well, time for a test drive, one more thing though, I got under the truck, checked the overdrive lockout arm on the side of the transmission, it was all the way back where it is suppose to be, great! Okay, well, I jumped in the truck, fired it up, and took off, I went through first, shifted into second, and accelerated to about 32 MPH, let off the throttle, got the "freewheel" effect which is what is suppose to happen, and then...............................NOTHING !! NO OVERDRIVE !! Easing into the throttle just produced revs and no "drive", so I depressed the pedal to the floor, and engaged the kickdown, then it went back into second, I eased off again, waited a couple seconds, and then NOTHING again !! , so I shifted into third, and third gear was there, I eased up to about 45 MPH, let off the throttle, waited a couple seconds, and............................NOTHING !! Back to the floor with the gas pedal to engage the kickdown, and third gear came back. SO, I can only surmise from this, that either my governor is not working, solenoid is not working, or I have a problem in the overdrive unit itself. I guess my next job will be to see if the governor is working correctly. I'm thinking about hooking up a remote ground push button to try it again, and hold the button in and see if it engages overdrive, I am thinking more so the governor is the problem, because I did get the solenoid to click................................film at 11 !!

[sargentrs]

Congrats! Sounds like you're making progress.

[fivo2fst4u]

Congrats! Sounds like you're making progress.

Or a lot of work for nothing !! Lol I'll keep my fingers crossed!!

[Thed]

For future reference:

30 = positive power supply from battery
85 = ground
86 = switch
87 = device being powered

Now you can switch 85 and 86, it performs fine either way, but 85 has a wee bit less resistance, so it is better suited as a ground. Some relays have five prongs, the fifth being 87a. This would go to a device that you want powered when the switch is in the off position.

[fivo2fst4u]

For future reference:
Thanks !! I got it wired correctly. I hooked a jumper lead to the ground side of the relay, and brought it through the left rear corner of the hood, I then grounded it at the side view mirror, I got a click from the relay every time, so, I took the truck for a test drive again, I got into second gear, and at 30 MPH or so, I grounded the wire, nothing, good so far, because it should already be grounded at that speed. I slowed down to about 25, grounded it again, CLICK ! SO the governor is working, but no overdrive. I got it up to about 35-40 in second gear, grounded the wire, got nothing, so governor is working, still no overdrive though. I shifted to third gear, let off, still no overdrive. I took it back home, randomly grounded the relay above and below 28 MPH to make sure the governor is working, it always did. I got it back in my driveway, left the key on, routed the jumper wire under the truck, and got under there myself. I grounded the relay, and heard nothing at the solenoid. I repeatedly grounded it rather quickly, then started getting some soft clicks out of it. I noticed that when it DID click, oil dripped out of what looks like a small crack right next to the nut next to the wire harness grommet, in the housing. I never could get a real good solid "THWACK" sound like I would think it's suppose to have. I've never worked on one of these before, so maybe this is normal? (well, other than the oil leak,lol) So, I checked the connections at the solenoid, one was loose enough to slide apart, so I crimped it a little better, got a good connection, then tried it again, clicked every time, also, even when it didn't click before this, it was energized,as I held a small all metal hammer against it, and the housing was magnetized. Back out on the road I go! STILL NO OVERDRIVE !! @$^&$%*@#% !!!! Lol ! Well, as far as I can tell, things are all pointing to a bad solenoid. I will take it out tomorrow, and see what's going on with it on the bench. And so it continues...............................
30 = positive power supply from battery
85 = ground
86 = switch
87 = device being powered

Now you can switch 85 and 86, it performs fine either way, but 85 has a wee bit less resistance, so it is better suited as a ground. Some relays have five prongs, the fifth being 87a. This would go to a device that you want powered when the switch is in the off position.

[fivo2fst4u]

For future reference:
Thanks !! I got it wired correctly. I hooked a jumper lead to the ground side of the relay, and brought it through the left rear corner of the hood, I then grounded it at the side view mirror, I got a click from the relay every time, so, I took the truck for a test drive again, I got into second gear, and at 30 MPH or so, I grounded the wire, nothing, good so far, because it should already be grounded at that speed. I slowed down to about 25, grounded it again, CLICK ! SO the governor is working, but no overdrive. I got it up to about 35-40 in second gear, grounded the wire, got nothing, so governor is working, still no overdrive though. I shifted to third gear, let off, still no overdrive. I took it back home, randomly grounded the relay above and below 28 MPH to make sure the governor is working, it always did. I got it back in my driveway, left the key on, routed the jumper wire under the truck, and got under there myself. I grounded the relay, and heard nothing at the solenoid. I repeatedly grounded it rather quickly, then started getting some soft clicks out of it. I noticed that when it DID click, oil dripped out of what looks like a small crack right next to the nut next to the wire harness grommet, in the housing. I never could get a real good solid "THWACK" sound like I would think it's suppose to have. I've never worked on one of these before, so maybe this is normal? (well, other than the oil leak,lol) So, I checked the connections at the solenoid, one was loose enough to slide apart, so I crimped it a little better, got a good connection, then tried it again, clicked every time, also, even when it didn't click before this, it was energized,as I held a small all metal hammer against it, and the housing was magnetized. Back out on the road I go! STILL NO OVERDRIVE !! @$^&$%*@#% !!!! Lol ! Well, as far as I can tell, things are all pointing to a bad solenoid. I will take it out tomorrow, and see what's going on with it on the bench. And so it continues...............................
30 = positive power supply from battery
85 = ground
86 = switch
87 = device being powered

Now you can switch 85 and 86, it performs fine either way, but 85 has a wee bit less resistance, so it is better suited as a ground. Some relays have five prongs, the fifth being 87a. This would go to a device that you want powered when the switch is in the off position.

Anyone know where I can get a good solenoid for thsi thing if mine checks out bad, I found one online, but they want almost 300.00 !! Hell with that !! Lol

[fivo2fst4u]

Well, after a couple days of rain, I'm back at it. I took the solenoid out, bench tested it, and it did work, but was kind of weak, I could hold the palm of my hand against the plunger rod, and stop it from extending, I took the cover off and it was full of oil, I cleaned it all out, sprayed the mechanism with carb cleaner, then dressed the points with a pints file, and cleaned everything thoroughly, I tried it again, and it is much stronger, seeming like it will do the job it is intended for! Great right? Not so much! I go to put it back in, using the 1/4 turn method I have read about, no luck, it doesn't want to go in, not no way, not no how!! Anyone run into this before, I know there is a flat spot on the rod, and I read that that is suppose to be horizontal, like the crankshaft, and then the 1/4 turn?, or is it horizontal AFTER the 1/4 turn? At any rate, I just found that out, so I'm going to go see where the flat spot is on the solenoid (which way it is facing) Grrrrr @%^*&!%^#%& !!!!

[fivo2fst4u]

OK, I put the solenoid back in, tugged on it to make sure it was locked in before I put the bolts in, I put a screwdriver in there first, before I put the solenoid in, and I couldn't really get the pawl to move, it moved a very little once, but then it seemed to stay where it moved to, without springing back, didn't feel right to me. well, I put the solenoid in, bolted it down, grounded the relay with the key on, and got power to the solenoid, out on the road I go, run it up to about 32 MPH in second gear, let off, NOTHING !! I believe the blocker ring is not working in the unit, I am about to say the hell with it, as I am selling this truck, but really would have liked to have the overdrive working when I do. Guess you can't have everything! Any ideas ?

[fivo2fst4u]

OK, I put the solenoid back in, tugged on it to make sure it was locked in before I put the bolts in, I put a screwdriver in there first, before I put the solenoid in, and I couldn't really get the pawl to move, it moved a very little once, but then it seemed to stay where it moved to, without springing back, didn't feel right to me. well, I put the solenoid in, bolted it down, grounded the relay with the key on, and got power to the solenoid, out on the road I go, run it up to about 32 MPH in second gear, let off, NOTHING !! I believe the blocker ring is not working in the unit, I am about to say the hell with it, as I am selling this truck, but really would have liked to have the overdrive working when I do. Guess you can't have everything! Any ideas ?

[ScottT80]

You have any pictures of the setup? Where are you located at?