Trans swap opinions

[thereverend]

71 f100 351W c4 LWB. My main motive is OD. I guess the 3 options are AOD, T-5 (or similar ?) or a gear vendors. As much as I would love to do this in the driveway for my own pride I believe I would be having someone do this so that needs to be considered. So...

AOD - I'm guessing about $2500 Good, reputable trans, Flex plate, block plate, starter, hopefully just moving crossmember back a little, shorten drive shaft ?, ?use same column shifter (just won't have correct selector visually)??
T-5 - Maybe $2500, That's trans, flywheel, blockplate, starter, new crossmember, shifter, how would I get the speedometer to work?, driveshaft, new pedals, clutch, master and slaves.
Gear vendors - $3500. This one I could do in the yard. Just put the new tailshaft on existing c4 and run cable and electronics. I like the simplicity. What about longevity/durability?

This truck might tow a 3k lb trailer around the state at most. The 351 is nothing special and I am not gonna hot rod it. I just want OD and reliability. Help me out on these prices and give me your opinions or experiences, I would really appreciate it. Thanks!

[sargentrs]

With a 351w, transmissions are plentiful. You could grab practically any of the late 80- early 90 autos out of a 5.8L F150, Explorer, Broncos or Crown Vic for around $150 and have professionally rebuilt for under $1500. If I'm misleading here, somebody please chime in. Your existing column and pedal assembly will work (except for selector needle) and all you'd need would be to relocate your x/m and change your drive shaft.

[thereverend]

Has anyone personally done these (any one of the swaps)? If so can you give your opinion of difficulty? What was required, like parts list, things that weren't obvious like 28oz flywheel vs 50)? How it it holding up, performing?

[j41385]

I swapped out my c6 for an aod. All that was involved really is shortening the front drive shaft of the 2 piece shaft that I have by a couple inches, and adapting the shift linkage to fit. Also with the AOD the throttle valve cable is crucial to it operating correctly. There are aftermarket throttle valve cable brackets and carb linkage correctors available for edelbrock and holley carbs. And to change the shift indicator was pretty easy... As you know the stock shift pattern is PRND21. The AOD is PRN(OD)D1 so I used a lable maker to put OD over the D, and D over the 2.

As far as which aod to look for, I have a bit to say about that. The Pre 1988 units have rear oiling problems, or originally did but may have been corrected over the years. Aod came in cars, trucks and vans with v6 engines, inline 6 engines and v8 engines. V6 car aod will be the weakest, having the C servo (smallest) for overdrive. V8 cars and trucks had the B servo for overdrive. However the aod that came behind the 302 engine in 1992 and 1993 F150s and the thunderbird super coupe will have the largest A servo.

First few years of aod 1980-82 or 83 had a 1 inch overdrive band. After that they had a 1.5 inch overdrive band for added strength. But the 1992 or 1993 AOD from the f150 with a 302 will have the 2 inch overdrive band from the factory, and wide ratio gear set. It is possible to upgrade any aod to the a servo, v8 clutch packs, and 2 inch overdrive band with wide ratio gear set, but only those 2 years from that application will have it stock, so that's what I got. But having said that, I noticed my 1993 AOD had a freeze plug in the tail housing where the speedo cable would go. So my trans guy just swapped housings for me, and my speedo cable hooked right up.

Hope that helps if you choose to go with an AOD.

[thereverend]

Thanks for the replies!

j41385 - You didn't have to modify the rear DS? Did you use your stock flexplate and starter? What about the crossmember? If that is all that is required it sounds like the AOD is the way to go. If you don't mind me asking, how much did it cost you?

Keep the replies coming guys!

[HIO Silver]

Tremec TKO-500! Visit my build thread link in my sig.

[j41385]

Thanks for the replies!

j41385 - You didn't have to modify the rear DS? Did you use your stock flexplate and starter? What about the crossmember? If that is all that is required it sounds like the AOD is the way to go. If you don't mind me asking, how much did it cost you?

Keep the replies coming guys!

Only had to modify the front shaft. The flex plate is aod specific, but I just got one at napa for like 60 dollars. I reused my starter. Your starter may be different if you have a c4 trans because I had a c6. My crossmember was in the correct spot already for the aod.

As for cost, I needed this http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TCI-376710/
and this http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tci-376700/overview/ And I know that says GM but my trans guy said that's what I needed and it works perfect. Those 2 parts work great with the stock throttle valve cable on my 1993 AOD
$60 or so for the flex plate
$150 for the junkyard trans.
$60 for my trans guy to look inside of it and tell me if it needed rebuilt or was a runner. Turned out mine had rebuilt less than 5000 miles before and they had put a shift kit in. It was most likely a cash for clunkers trade in truck.
So I guess in total that's about $325

Then I sold my c6 for $300

[Motörhead1972]

Mine originally cam with a c4 as well. Swapped it out for a RAT 3.03 out of an 81' F100. I wanted an overdrive too but I became fascinated by the 3.03's simplicity and reliability. All of that sounded good for my overall goal of a stoplight drag truck. It's been good to me for almost a year now Heard a lot of horror stories online and from local friends of the T-5 not holding up well to racing and the occasional burnout. A poor hot rodder like me can't afford that. But if you're not going to go the way of the hot rod, then the T-5 would be an excellent little cruising transmission. Just my

[ultraranger]

The Ford 4R70W transmission evolved from the AOD-E transmission. The AOD-E evolved from the AOD transmission. The AOD and AOD-E transmissions had 2.40:1 1st gear ratios. The 4R70W was the first of these three transmissions to come with a wide ratio gearset. 1st gear ratio of the 4R70W is 2.84:1. There are some references to an AODE-W but this was an early refence to what is actually the 4R70W.

The AOD transmission is completely controlled via hydraulic pressure, determined by throttle valve cable/linkage position and by a governor that's on the output shaft. The AOD-E and 4R70W transmissions are electronically controlled and shifted by solenoid valves located inside the valve body. Both the AOD-E and 4R70W transmissions would require either a PCM (Powertrain Control Module) or a stand-alone shift controller to handle gear changes.

The wide ratio 4R70W gear-set can be swapped into the older AOD but there are some specific things that will have to be done to make this gear swap work.

There were change levels (improvements) made, within each group, to each of these three transmissions during the course of their production. '88-later AODs are a better choice if that's what you want to go with. The '98-later 4R70Ws are the best of that transmission (as well as being the best transmission of the three) if you would be interested in going in that direction.

I have a 4R70W from a '98 3.8L Mustang that I plan to rebuild and swap in place of the stock C-4 that's currently behind the carbureted 240 inline six that's in my '69 Ranger. I have a programmable, stand-alone shift controller from Baumann that will control gear changes of the 4R70W.

There's lots of information on the internet about any of these three Ford transmissions. If you are thinking of installing a Ford automatic overdrive transmission, my suggestion would be to read all you can about whichever one you may be interested in to learn what the differences are and when the better upgrades were made to each. --actually, if interested in one of these, it wouldn't hurt to read about ALL three of them and then form your opinion about what would best suit you or your needs. --originally, I had thoughts of installing an AOD. After extensive reading/research on these transmissions, it was pretty clear, for me, the 4R70W came out head & shoulders above the AOD & AOD-E.

[guhfluh]

How do you plan on adapting a TPS to your carb for an electronic trans?

[ultraranger]

How do you plan on adapting a TPS to your carb for an electronic trans?

The 4R70W can work with a fuel injected engine, or one that's carbureted, with a stand-alone shift controller.

It would be fairly simple to fabricate a bracket to mount a switch onto.

Here's a detailed manual for the controller I have.

http://www.usshift.com/downloads/4R70Wmanual.pdf

[guhfluh]

I've read the manual and it still requires a TPS for carburetor applications, no different from an EFI. It's not a switch, it's a sensor. Basically it's a potentiometer that works on a 0-5v range and it needs to sense every throttle position from fully closed to wide open and the voltage sweep needs to be roughly 0.3-4.7v through that range. I'm familiar with standalone controllers and all require throttle position input to work correctly and I haven't seen a clean way to adapt a TPS to a carb yet, which is why I ask.

[ultraranger]

I've read the manual and it still requires a TPS for carburetor applications, no different from an EFI. It's not a switch, it's a sensor. Basically it's a potentiometer that works on a 0-5v range and it needs to sense every throttle position from fully closed to wide open and the voltage sweep needs to be roughly 0.3-4.7v through that range. I'm familiar with standalone controllers and all require throttle position input to work correctly and I haven't seen a clean way to adapt a TPS to a carb yet, which is why I ask.

Yes, you are correct and I'm aware of what a potentiometer is. "Switch" was just a bad choice of words on my part. A switch is an on/off component. The TPS is simply a variable resistor with feedback circuit.

There are several TPS adapter brackets available on the web for various carburetor designs. If none of those suit you then it would just be a matter of how ingenious you are at fabricating something to your liking.

In the years just prior to Ford switching the carbureted inline 300s to fuel injection (pre-1987), there were Carter YFA carburetors that had a factory installed throttle position sensor mounted to the carburetor's base plate. These carburetors also had auto chokes. I would prefer to keep my Carter YF's manual choke. If the base plate screw mounting holes from the later Carter YFA matches the holes of the older Carter YF, and it appears it does, then it may be possible to swap the Carter YFA TPS base plate onto the body of the older YF carburetor version. If it will work, then it provides a factory solution of running a TPS on a 240/300 when running an electronically-shifted transmission. Otherwise, if you wanted the auto choke, you could probably install the later carburetor as-is.




...however, if none of that panned out, I do have a complete 5.0L H.O. fuel injected engine from a 1990 Mustang GT that could be swapped over into my truck. The TPS is already mounted to the 70mm BBK throttle body that's attached to its tubular GT-40 upper intake.

[67 StylesLide]

This is an interesting thread. Addresses questions I have anyway. wonder how it all turned out?

[ultraranger]

I bought the (wrecking yard donor) 4R70W transmission in 2012. It's been sitting off to the side in my shop since then. However, just last week, I did get the transmission out and started the teardown process on it.





Holding fixture I made.