new info on my SI/SII GM 3800 V6 Hybrid project

[turbocharged400sbc]

i honestly cant belive no one has done this before...there is no way that some GM tech/engineer hasent figured out that you could put the SII heads on the tall deck/long rod block with a custom cam and intake spacers...oh and lengthening the exhaust manifold crosover pipe...

still this is a much more mechanically efficient engine...1 inch Taller deck height ~5/8th inch longer rods, better rod/stroke ratio with the much better engineered/flowing SII factory large valve/symetrical port/heart shaped combustion chamber heads....especially if your considering a 4.2L stroker kit

ask and ye shale recieve...i have 58 new pics....

Just a tease....fer now ...these are the hot ones





10 pic flash strip of SI tall deck/long rod block/pushrods with SII DE larger valve/symetrical port heads


my sub album with 58 pics...still working on my writup on this update...

James

[spartman]

I am not very well versed on the newer stuff.

What are you saying?

Excuse my ignorance on this subject.

[fordman]

chevy terms are greek to me.

[turbocharged400sbc]

i am taking the earlier GM 3800 V6 (90-95) (tall deck long rod shortblock) and putting the much better designed/higher flowing SII (96+) heads on it

the SI has the valves aranged like this EIIEIE where as the SII heads are symetrical port heads EIEIEI

a comparison would be someone working on bolting 427 SOHC heads onto a 390...make more power...i'm just doing it with a GM V6
and besides a fella in Australia i am the only one currently working on it...everyone just assumed that it was imposible...at this point all i need is a custom cam and 1/2 inch intake port spacers (probably go with phenolic spacers).

people are already stroking 3800's to 4.2L and tall deck blocks are wayyyy better in stroker engines

regards, James

[spartman]

Interesting.

Now it makes sense.

[bluef250]

Going to put this mill in Ford truck?

[turbocharged400sbc]

in this:

http://videos.streetfire.net/search/442 ... 1242C7.htm

[turbocharged400sbc]

Ok lets start with the obvious stuff...
here are two pics of the different deck heights SI (1 inch taller) vs SII measured from the coolant port for the nearly identical timing chain covers....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v452/ ... height.jpg
SII
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v452/ ... height.jpg
In these pics you will see a 93 EV6 SI short block next to a SII shortblock
in this pic you will notice the same skirt mount holes for the accesory brackets and other bolt locations and then you will see the other differences in bolt hole locations and the extra knock sensor boss.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v452/ ... ocks10.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v452/ ... locks8.jpg
SI block face:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v452/ ... locks6.jpg
SII block face
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v452/ ... locks5.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v452/ ... locks2.jpg
now to the headgaskets Here are some pics...try to guess which is which...
the SII is identical except for the slightly different valve reliefs in the combustion chamber fire-ring in the SII HG as well as it has the large area with triangles cutout for the pushrods to pass through.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v452/ ... askets.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v452/ ... skets2.jpg
Here you wil see the SII headgasket on the SI block
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v452/ ... Iblock.jpg
Here you see the lifter offset from the SII lifter bore locations
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v452/ ... block2.jpg]
And here is the SI gasket on the SI block
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v452/ ... Iblock.jpg
so far it looks like the SII gasket will have to be used as the SI gasket, though nearly identical, might shroud the valves and hinder flow.

Here the 2000 SII head is bolted onto the SI EV6 block...those symetrical ports look right at home dont they...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v452/ ... block2.jpg
Here is a 3/4 view:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v452/ ... 6block.jpg
and a rocker arm buisness end view
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v452/ ... erview.jpg

To further show the slight differences in lifter bore locations between the SI and SII blocks here is a SII lifter carrier above a SI carrier notice the center two are in perfect alignment
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v452/ ... guides.jpg
And here you see the two end lifter locations notice on the SII where the lifter bores were moved inward more on the inner lifter than the outer (end) lifter.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v452/ ... sofset.jpg

And here are the SI pushrods installed center two are at 0 degree's and the outboard 4 pushrods are at slight inward angles, the ones on the ends are at ~ 1.5-2 degree's and the ones inboard of the ends are at ~3.5 degree's and just slightly graze the edges of the intake port casting. This neccesitates grinding just a hair over 1mm from the outter port wall.
Lifter guide left off for clarity:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v452/ ... larity.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v452/ ... block2.jpg
In this pic my buddy Donald is pointing to the two outter pushrods which are at the ~1.5-2 degree angle
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v452/ ... egrees.jpg
here he is pointing to the pushrods that are at ~ 3.5-4 degree's and that hit the outer port casting, this was fixed by removing just a bit over 1mm of metal about 1 cm tall from the outer port wall...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v452/ ... -35deg.jpg

now the oilpans are even more interesting as the SI sump height is a little deeper and has a larger front sump section...both have identical bolt hole locations and pan rail widths...the major difference is the SI pan has an integral windage tray and the SII pan has the windage tray integral to the pan gasket carrier... (SI pan is on the right and bottom of the pics)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v452/ ... lpans2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v452/ ... lpans5.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v452/ ... lpans9.jpg

and the rods are next the SI rod being a longer rod by ~5/8ths of an inch (I have seen specs saying its .64 inches shorter) but i have to pull the pistons off the rods for more comparison. the SI rod has a thicker main beam and also has more material around the big end capscrew locations, besides being equipped with a larger dia piston wrist pin, this could be bushed to work for a floating pin application and probably use the SII wrist pin diameter. Also note where the SI piston also has a tall compression height that if the SII piston were put into a SI block you would be able to get the rod even longer by ~1/4 inch of an inch for an even better rod/stroke ratio

so if you used the SII piston (or an aftermarket) with the SI rod in a SI shortblock you could throw in a ~3.6 inch stroker crank and have all factory components without custom length rods etc.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v452/ ... istons.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v452/ ... igends.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v452/ ... gends3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v452/ ... stons7.jpg

the SI piston on the right has a deeper dish with a top ring located lower and a taller oil scrapper ring, than the L36 piston on the left
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v452/ ... stons4.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v452/ ... istons.jpg

and a through the bore view of the head/valves
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v452/ ... Iblock.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v452/ ... block4.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v452/ ... block6.jpg

thats enough fer now...more to come...

Regards, James

[72hiboy4x4]

so where's the pics of your FORD?

[FORDification]

James, I edited your posts above to make links instead of actually showing all those pictures inline, mainly to help with page download times....so that everybody viewing this thread doesn't have to download each and every large image.

Also edited because they're about as far off-topic in this forum as a topic can get.

[turbocharged400sbc]

so where's the pics of your FORD?

uhhh the pics have as much dust on em as the truck does...she's still tucked away safe and sound

i'm moving my toolbox back home so i can start working on some of my projects...my 68 F250 will be getting a converted york air compressor and tank, multiple battery's and a 1750w inverter, not to mention all the parts in the bed from a 79 F350...and the parts i stripped from my 86 i just recently junked

yeah i got alot to do

[Leadfoot]

So aren't ya a car crafter? I think I saw your car doing burnouts on the readers ride page. Holy @#%* I thought I was a gear head.

as for your truck your not going to twin engine it to are ya?

[turbocharged400sbc]

So aren't ya a car crafter? I think I saw your car doing burnouts on the readers ride page. Holy @#%* I thought I was a gear head.

as for your truck your not going to twin engine it to are ya?

yup we are on readers rides live...no burnouts though...yet...gonna eventually do a tug of war...front trans in D and the rear in Rev

actually it will be getting two engine's...one will be driving the 220v generator though...not the truck...

thanks fordification...i still gotta get them part numbers fer ya from my 79 F350 and 68 250 beams (i havent forgotten)