StarRrRrRrRting problems.

[70_F100]

How badly was the rectangular cover dented?

[ToughOldFord]

If it's in correctly and is the correct one then I'd suspect the replacement starter. Too often the rebuilds the parts stores sell aren't any good. I agree, don't do the washers as spacers thing, you could really cause some damage.
Problem with going to stock manifolds now is that your exhaust pipes won't bolt up to the manifolds, they're made for those headers. So you'd be talking about replacing the whole system which isn't worth it, IMO, as long as your system's in good shape. The next time it's due for a new exhaust system that'd be a good time to go back to stock. Stock manifolds with dual exhaust, the best of both worlds.

[70_F100]

[72bumbee]

Raining today, so the truck is sitting in water, not going to work on it till it dries out. I took a few more pictures, to show the dent on that rounder cover thingy. I know for a fact that there was one 5/16 th washer on each bolt next to the mounting plate, and a lock washer beneath each bolt. What would be the chance of finding another mounting plate? Do they sell them in the parts store or online? The guys at the auto parts store seem to be all for the washers as spacers and a can of lithium grease. I am all for no spacers and a correct fitting starter. I can't prove its defective until I pull it out again. I REALLY dont want to do that again, but if that is the only option, I will. Much better than having it in the shop for a new flywheel. I paid $600.00 for the shop to do that back in the 90s. Can't imagine what they would want for it now. You guys have been right on the mark so far, and I am beginning to think there is but one option left!
Thanks again
Steve

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[fordman]

i dotn think that dent is big enought to make a difference. i think the only way to get this fixed is to pull it back out take it back to the parts store and check it against another one for the same truck and transmission. one time and only once did i get a part in the wrong box. so i know it can happen.

[70_F100]

Fordman is right. The dent is not severe enough to cause a problem. I just happened to think about you mentioning it in an earlier post, and if it's dented badly enough in the right place, it can hold the starter drive engagement lever down, resulting in the drive being too close to the flywheel.

I've gotten mis-boxed parts on several occasions at AutoChina, so I try to avoid them now.

Here's a thought. In your sig, it says your truck has an auto tranny. Now, you say that the flywheel has been replaced once, and that the starter had washers between the drive-end housing and the engine spacer plate. My guess is that the shop installed your flywheel backwards and rather than pull the tranny and get it right, they used spacers to space the starter out to keep it from hitting.

I'm seriously concerned that you may have only two options: 1) pull the tranny and install the flywheel correctly, or 2) use spacers.

How's the best way to verify that this is the problem? Pull the starter back off the truck and measure the distance between the spacer plate and the ring gear on the flywheel. FInd someone who has the same engine/tranny setup that can do the same for you (there's probably someone on the forum that has an engine and tranny sitting around in their garage). Have them measure the same dimension, and compare. It might take a few days to get a response, but that's better than pulling the tranny just to find out I'm wrong.

I'm pretty sure, as someone said earlier, that there are only two starters used on the FE engines in these trucks, one for auto tranny and the other for manual. You might get lucky enough to find one of each at a local auto parts store and compare them. If the nose cone on yours is longer than the either of them, you probably have the wrong starter.

Using spacers is not a good way to go, for two reasons. First, as I stated earlier, it opens the bellhousing to trash. Second, because the starter gets its proper alignment from the hole in the spacer plate, you run the risk of tearing up a lot of money because of misalignment. Using washers as spacers further complicates the matter, because if you do, indeed, have to use spacers, the probability of all of the washers ending up the same thickness when installed is VERY slim.

Either way, it looks like the starter is going to have to come back off. SORRY!!!

A tip for when you put it back on. Since installation of the starter is fairly simple (three bolts and a wire), install the starter and test it BEFORE you install the headers. It will only take a few minutes to pull it back off to install the header, and if it's STILL not right, you haven't invested all of the extra time and hassle of dealing with the header.

[72bumbee]

now the light is begining to come on. When I bought this truck in the early summer, I took it right down to the transmission shop and had the tranny rebuilt. Is there a chance that they had the flywheel out of the bellhousing? Also, It looks like they may have undone some frame bolts and the exhaust at the bottom coupling. I made mention to my wife, that it looked like they might have had a tough time getting the coupling at the exhaust pipe back together. I just didn't see any evidence that the starter had been toyed with. I never did look at the starter or anything else prior to it going to the transmission shop.
Also, there is another question that is off topic, but something that came to mind. When the exhaust was done back whenever the city of portland owned this truck, how does a person put those headers in to begin with? Does the exhaust guy have to pull the starter to get that header in, or does it somehow go in there with the starter in place? I tried mounting the starter with the header out, and then tried slipping it around the starter. no go. Sort of the which came first the chicken or the egg?

[72bumbee]

By the way, the flywheel I replaced was in dads old 67. That was a long time ago. this truck, my 72 I bought this summer, just had the tranny rebuilt. You think they would have had cause to remove the flywheel?

[72bumbee]

If I took the new starter back to the auto zone and had it tested, and say it tested bad where would I get one that was surely going to fit. one said rebuilds were unreliable, so sounds like rebuilding the old one was the way to go? ALSO, does anyone here have a measurement between the mounting plate and the flywheel?

[ToughOldFord]

You can get a good rebuild, but occasionally a bad one gets trough. Just have them test the new one before you leave the store.

I bought a rebuilt alternator at Kragens once, I was waiting in line to check out and I went to spin the pulley out of boredom and the thing was froze solid. Showed it to them and they got another one and had no problem with that one.

[SteveC]

fe engines in these trucks only used one starter.. when i switch from auto to a manual i used the same starter from my auto and it worked and no teeth are chewed up on it...My flywheel and the flexplate had the same number of teeth .

plus all the parts catalogs i look at NPD and lmc only list one starter for the fe engine
Its the small blocks that use a different starter.

[70_F100]

now the light is begining to come on. When I bought this truck in the early summer, I took it right down to the transmission shop and had the tranny rebuilt. Is there a chance that they had the flywheel out of the bellhousing? Also, It looks like they may have undone some frame bolts and the exhaust at the bottom coupling. I made mention to my wife, that it looked like they might have had a tough time getting the coupling at the exhaust pipe back together. I just didn't see any evidence that the starter had been toyed with. I never did look at the starter or anything else prior to it going to the transmission shop.

Just re-read this post and caught something I missed the first time.

If they pulled the tranny, they HAD to pull the starter, as the starter is bolted into the bellhousing.

It MIGHT be worth going back and talking to them about this and find out EXACTLY what they did and why the washers are in there.

[ToughOldFord]

fe engines in these trucks only used one starter.. when i switch from auto to a manual i used the same starter from my auto and it worked and no teeth are chewed up on it...My flywheel and the flexplate had the same number of teeth .

plus all the parts catalogs i look at NPD and lmc only list one starter for the fe engine
Its the small blocks that use a different starter.

You know, that's right, I did the same thing.

[fordman]

i went out and tried to get a measurement for you. the engine and trans i have sitting in the garage are real close to a table that i cant move. i was able to reach down in there and the starter ws off for some reason. but from the out enge of the engine where the starter goes in was abotu 3/4 of an inch. i measured a 6 cyl with a manual flywheel on it and from the enigne plate to the flywheel was about 1/4 inch. that seems about right with the enigne lip being counted in the first measurement. it could be a little more. to measure any more stuff i would have to either take a strater off or move the engine in the garage. maybe someone else has an engine out they can measure to get a closer measuremnet than i could give.

[rjewkes]

I had my c4 rebuilt when i had the 302 in the truck and they stipped out the holes and put nuts on the bolts to mount.