Several misc. 4x4-related questions

[FORDification]

OK, so I've now taken the plunge into 4WD territory and will be asking lots of questions as I start tinkering with the new-to-me '68 SWB 4x4. I got the truck for the box, but have been seriously considering keeping it as a future project. Anyway, although I've become fairly knowledgeable on the 2WD trucks, I'm a virgin newbie on the 4x4s, so I've got some questions which are pretty basic...for now.

1) I would like for you to check out the pics of the engine stands posted to the truck's picture page (Figs. 19-24) and tell me what's going on. It appears as if the previous owner moved the stands back about 1/2" and then welded them in. Why would he do this? The factory stands are just bolted on, right? Are the motor mounts supposed to be centered on the stands? (I'm planning on getting some better pictures this weekend.) On the 2WD trucks, the I6 and FE stands are the same....does this hold true for the 4WDs?

2) In those same pictures you can see how the clutch's Z-bar is at a weird angle...almost like the engine is too low. Any ideas what's going on here? The stands appear to be semi-correct as to up-and-down placement.

3) I know the 4WD frames have the VIN stamped on the frame under the cab on the right side, but is there also supposed to be one farther to the front, like on the 2WDs? It's possible there used to be one there but was obliterated when the previous owner welded in the engine stands.

4) I'll admit I've actually not paid much attention to the chit-chat in the 4WD forum since very little discussed in here pertained to me directly. (However, that's going to change for sure now!) However, I seem to recall that all front differentials in these trucks were of a low-pinion design, yet mine's a high-pinion. Was there more than one style available on the early trucks?

5) Does anyone have any reference pictures of the transfer case shifter? Mine's MIA and I'd just like to get the visual of what I'm going to need to track down.

Guess that's it for now. Thanks!

[heep70]

I don't know much about the F100s. I think the F100s had a Dana 30 up front that was a high pinion.

My Z bar is also at an angle. I also have a 460. I don't remember if it was at an angle with the previous 390.

The motor mounts are ????????????? I don't know.

[460 crew]

I know on the 250's there are another set of holes for the stands to be moved back so I can't understand why they would be welded in other than XXX's theory.

Front axles can be easily swapped out but can't see why they'd go through the trouble and not find a HP disk setup.

Vin #'s my crew had 2 one under the cab and the other right behind the pass tire on top of the frame instead of in front of the tire.

I'll post a pic of the shifter soon if knowone else gets one up b4 me.

[averagef250]

I'm not a half ton 4x4 guy, but every 67-79 F-100 4x4 I've ever seen has had a HP 44 under the front. Disc conversion is very simple with spindles out from a 76-79 F-100 4x4 or a TTB 44 fits too I think. Ford never used the D30 under a 1/2 ton truck.

The 4x4 frame stands for the F-250's should be the same six or V8 and I'd guess they'd be the same as the F-100 stands. Should be pretty easy to find good stands from and 67-77 F-100 or F-250 4x4. In 77 the frames were changed to put the engine stands in a different spot for the 351M/400's, but the stands look identicle to the early stuff.

My guess on the crooked Z-bar is that somebody dropped the tranny/T-case crossmember to try getting a better rear driveline angle for a suspension lift. It's a dumb thing to do and screws up the alignment of everything. The angle plates on the frame that the 4x4 transmission crossmember sits on should be riveted to the frame, if they are bolted somebodies messed with the drivetrain angles.

My 70 F-250 4x4 was a pacific power brush truck that they special ordered with some odd options like the 7700 GVW package, 300 six, a T-case PTO, non-Ford pacific power olive drab green-gray paint and it's a cab-chassis truck. They shipped the truck to a company called Willock manufacturing somewhere in Canada that was a specialty truck upfitter for military and specialty fleet vehicles. They made a bunch of dodge powerwagons for the military in WW2 era that had a twisting joint between the cab and bed for better articulation. Apparently Pacific power liked the idea so they had them convert this truck with the twisty joint between the cab and bed. The joint went essentially in the same spot as the T-case crossmember so the T-case was moved forward about 16 inches, the engine and tranny were moved forward an inch and all the drivetrain angles were changed.

Eventually, I got pretty sick of the joint. It worked amazingly well offroad and you didn't really notice it in normal driving conditions, but I use my truck for hauling some pretty heavy trailers and that joint did not get along with towing heavy stuff. The truck has a pretty healthy 390 in it now and starting off on a hill with a 20K pound trailer made the whole front end of the truck try to flip itself over from engine torque.

I found a perfect virgin frame and swapped it under my truck and put the twisty frame in the shed. I like the truck alot more now that everything works right.

You probably know this, but the factory ford chassis manuals describe in great detail the exact drivetrain angles in relationship to the bottom, flat, straight part of the frame just forward of the front rear leaf spring hanger.

[19674x4]

wow keith-

#1 if they are moved back(which it looks like) then it may not have the stock tranny in there or he put a married t-case instead of a divorced one.
the factoty stands are bolted on. As far as i know- they are supposed to be centered unless they got moved for balance issues.

#2 the z-bar may have gotten bent at the mounting spot. is the top of the carb within 1-2 inches of the top of the rad?

#3 no clue

#4 i think the dana 30's were low pinion- my dana 44 is a low pinion.

#5 I'll get a pic real quick- like 5 minutes for ya.


good luck

[FORDification]

Well, it DOES have the married transfer case...it's bolted via an adaptor to the back of the tranny.

I can't answer your question about the carb height because there's no intake manifold or cylinder heads...just a frozen-up short block. However, this truck was originally a 6-cylinder/3-spd, and a previous owner installed the FE/NP435.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't this truck have come with a married transfer setup anyway? About when did Ford start using the divorced setup?

[19674x4]

here's those pics

[19674x4]

another

[19674x4]

last one- are they what you wanted?

[67f100]

Hey Keith, just checked my 1972 F100 4X4 bare frame and the vin #s are both on the right hand side-one under the cab like you said and the second one on my truck is stamped on top between the front cross member and the motor mount. This truck came with a 360,NP435,dana 21 married case. I'm thinkin' with a little clean up that front number should become visible unless this truck had who knows what motor stuck in there in the distant past and the number is long gone...

[FORDification]

Well I appreciate those pics, but actually I was hoping for pictures of how the shifter attaches to the transfer case. On mine, it appears that most of the shifter assembly is there, except for the handle, I believe. How would the handle attach to this bracket?

[FORDification]

Hey Keith, just checked my 1972 F100 4X4 bare frame and the vin #s are both on the right hand side-one under the cab like you said and the second one on my truck is stamped on top between the front cross member and the motor mount. This truck came with a 360,NP435,dana 21 married case. I'm thinkin' with a little clean up that front number should become visible unless this truck had who knows what motor stuck in there in the distant past and the number is long gone...

OK, thanks! Since the previous owner butcher-welded the engine's frame mounts, I thought it was possible the number got wiped out during the surgery....apparently that is exactly what happened here.

[kentdaryl]

Oh, and on the shifter handle if it's the same as the F250 then the bottom of the shifter is threaded and just threads into the lever or inserts through and has a nut. It would be simple to fab one up. Daryl

[FORDification]

Thanks Daryl. I've been doing a lot of research on transfer cases last night and today and have actually been kinda disappointed with the lack of good basic 'newbie-tutorial' stuff. However, I believe I've slowly been pieceing the info together. Does the following sound correct?

• - Dana 21 - 1962-1976 F-100 4x4s, married single-speed power divider instead of a two-speed (hi-lo) transfer case. It's a cast-iron gear-driven unit, and all it does is engage and disengage the front driveshaft. There is no neutral, only '2WD' and '4WD'.
  
  - Dana 24 - (up through 1976) - F250-F350s 4x4s up through 1976, 'divorced' 2-speed (hi-lo)
  
  - NP-203 - (1977 thru ?) F100 4x4s - full-time, married
  
  - NP-205 - (1977 thru ?) F250-F350 4x4s, part-time, married

I'm still researching this out and will be trying to put together a good basic tutorial in the near future.

[kentdaryl]

Keith,
I believe the F100 info you have is correct. On the F250 I'm not sure what year the switch was made from the Dana 24 to the new Process, I thought the change was made in '73, maybe someone else can help out with that. The Dana 24 is also a cast iron/all gear unit with hi/lo and neutral. Daryl