M5R2 to a 1970 302...

[Wilma-Colorado]

Hello all,

We're still not certain what to do for a 5 speed transmission in our '70 F100/302/3 speed.

Had pretty much settled on a T-5 for its mechanical clutch, but the changes necessary to get the shifter out from under the bench seat require an S-10 tailshaft housing and associated hardware and there are about a million different T-5 versions, some not so good - a 249 or 251 would be ideal. Does anyone know if the F150 M5R2 will bolt up to our 302 ? That is, is the bellhousing bolt pattern the same, and is input shaft length correct, and the pilot bearing diameter (17mm) the same ? A new clutch disc to match the M5 spline would be a small price to pay.

The flooding here has delayed the engine re-install. It goes in this weekend. With the old 3 speed still there for the time being.

http://s1153.photobucket.com/user/wilma ... b.jpg.html

http://s1153.photobucket.com/user/wilma ... sort=2&o=2

Thanks in advance,

Wilma

[motzingg]

its a direct bolt-up on the bell housing but you will need the whole clutch from the M5r2, throwout slave cylinder and a hydraulic clutch setup, or some tricky stuff to mount a shift fork.

that clutch, for the whole kit, pressure plate and disc, is like 90 bucks on rock auto, cheap if you ask me.

[averagef250]

its a direct bolt-up on the bell housing but you will need the whole clutch from the M5r2, throwout slave cylinder and a hydraulic clutch setup, or some tricky stuff to mount a shift fork.

that clutch, for the whole kit, pressure plate and disc, is like 90 bucks on rock auto, cheap if you ask me.

The 3 speed clutch will work fine with the M5R2. Why on earth would you think you need a different clutch?

[sargentrs]

http://www.fordification.com/tech/M5R2_5spd-swap.htm Pics would have been nice. I don't quite understand how he modified the stock clutch rod from push to pull.

[Wilma-Colorado]

"The 3 speed clutch will work fine with the M5R2. Why on earth would you think you need a different clutch?"

Clutch disc. If the M5R2 has a different input shaft diameter or spline tooth count or pilot bearing depth/diameter. And if we do have to change discs, is one of the same diameter and thickness but with the correct hub spline available ?

Am I overthinking this ? Worrying is one of my long suits.

Thanks all for the replies... we read and consider everything.

Wilma

[Wilma-Colorado]

"http://www.fordification.com/tech/M5R2_5spd-swap.htm Pics would have been nice. I don't quite understand how he modified the stock clutch rod from push to pull."

Agree, Sarge. Photos would answer some of our questions, especially mounting the hydraulics. We did find a local who swapped an M5R2 into an '86 shortbox F150 with the 300 inline 6. It installed and fitted up with no modifications but to the crossmember. Shifter is back a little far in the cab.

Wilma

[SDFarmKid]

http://www.fordification.com/forum/view ... =4&t=72881

I have some pics posted in this thread. If you have any particular ones you want im going home this weekend to help with harvest so i can get them. Hope they help.

[averagef250]

"The 3 speed clutch will work fine with the M5R2. Why on earth would you think you need a different clutch?"

Clutch disc. If the M5R2 has a different input shaft diameter or spline tooth count or pilot bearing depth/diameter. And if we do have to change discs, is one of the same diameter and thickness but with the correct hub spline available ?

Am I overthinking this ? Worrying is one of my long suits.

Thanks all for the replies... we read and consider everything.

Wilma

You are underthinking it.

The splines, pilot bearing and PP depth are the same. The PP bolt pattern is not the same so the late model clutch will not fit the old flywheel.

[motzingg]

I had two different people tell me that the manual clutch throwout bearing wouldn't work with the hydraulic throwout fork, they look like totally different bearings but i haven't tried it to see how they line up.

Completely forgot about the flywheel thing, I know up to 77 they are all the weird 3 prong pp, but are all the 77 up the same bolt pattern, or did it change again with the mid 80s' or whenever they went to the other clutch?

Can all the different pressure plates use the same clutch 11" disc or is that different too? Is there any advantage/improvements with the later clutches?

[Wilma-Colorado]

Time out. King's X.

We have given up. The M5R2 is a fail-to-launch, just too many unknowns. We have decided on a 4 speed top loader which is a true bolt-in. I know it's heavy and has no overdrive top gear. I also know we can stay with our current clutch linkage and the shifter will come up out of the floor in the right place and the input shaft will fit our current clutch with our current bellhousing and the speedo drive works. Maybe have to alter the driveshaft length and go to a 3.00 axle. Plus there's probably no way to break it with 275 horsepower and maybe 300 lb/ft of torque. Small price to pay for certainty.

Thanks to everyone for helping us decide.

Wilma

[averagef250]

The M5R2 is an easy bolt up deal. The 89-91 M5R2's use a mechanical push in speedo drive that's identical to all older Fords with push in speedo drives.

[Wilma-Colorado]

The search is over.

To bring an end to this thread... we bought a Top Loader last night. Up in Iowa, and we're going to drive back and get it rather than UPS. I'm always leery of using the word, "should", but here goes. It SHOULD fit. Except drive shaft length and rear crossmember location which I know will need attention. This one's freshly re-built. I spoke with the seller for quite a while and we've decided to trust him - a Ford guy for 50 years.

So, thanks again to everyone for their thoughts and ideas. We have the engine back in - with the 3 speed for the time being - and plan to be driving it sometime this coming week. The headers turned out to be a big PITA. The left one hit the clutch bell crank and column shift rods. FlowTech from Summit has a set that is specifically made for this application (manual trans, column shift) so we have a set of them now. Once the fine tuning on the engine install is complete, we'll begin the transmission upgrade. Have to start learning about Hurst shifters.

Wilma

[Wilma-Colorado]

Hello all,

We've been away from the forum for a while. Our transmission choice is complete and in the truck. We found a freshly rebuilt Top loader wide ratio 4-speed/28 spline on Craig's List in Iowa and bought it. We bought a used Hurst Competition Plus shifter and shift lever, Hurst boot and plate, and fabricated our own shift rods from three column shift rods and Heim joints from Auto-Zone. Obviously, our engine is also back in, and the truck is on the road. We decided to splurge and installed a Centerforce clutch disc and pressure plate. Found a Lakewood aluminum bellhousing and bought it - but too late for the installation of the iron one, so it's sitting in the shop waiting.

Compared to the engine before rebuild, I think the power has doubled. We still only have 350 miles on it but it feels stronger every time we take it out. The Top loader was the right choice for us. Traditional old-time 4 on the floor and the great solid feel of a Hurst shifter. We still have to change out the axle to a 3.00 ratio, the 3.50 has the engine over 3000 rpm at 70 mph. The Top Loader required a shortening of the front half of the driveshaft so we had the entire assembly rebuilt at Pueblo Brake & Clutch during the shortening... 3 new U-joints, with grease zercs, and a new middle bearing and support. We also had to move the transmission crossmember back - and found that there were already holes in the frame flange at the exact spot we needed. So, no drilling at all. The cab floor surprised us, I'd always thought there was a removable panel on the transmission hump. Ford didn't do that - only the 4 speed trucks had the hole stamped and the panel bolted in, the 3 speeds had no hole so we had to cut a small one. We built our own shifter mounting plate out of .500 aluminum plate as we could not figure out which mount to buy from Hurst. The big fear was that the shift lever would come up under the seat if we didn't get a forward mount plate for our tailshaft casting. As it ended up, the shifter came up through the flat part of the hump and the boot and chromed retainer mounted easily and look nice. And I splurged for a genuine Hurst white shift knob... have your wallet ready if you buy one, they are pricy.

So far, we couldn't be more pleased with the way our F-100 runs and shifts. Like a completely different vehicle. My only regret was our going with 22 inch Thrush 2.25 turbo mufflers. Should have used the 14's, the truck is very quiet. Like, too quiet... After the axle change-out, we plan to install a fuel cell behind the rear axle and get that Molotov Cocktail gastank out from behind the seat in the cab, and we'll mount a set of traction bars.

Thanks again for the advice we've gotten from everyone on the forum, it's made our project much more successful. I'll post some photos on our Photobucket page in a few days. Got out of towner guests in for Christmas.

Wilma

[sargentrs]

Congratulations! Glad to hear you got her fixed up.